That's where I just got a bottle, $14.59 for a quart. Advice? Does etching have to be done before temper, or can you etch first and have the pattern survive the process? Damascus Steel rings are made of two alternating types of stainless steel, AEB-L and 302, forged together and worked by hand to produce vivid patterns. Damascus etching is completed with either ferric chloride or muriatic acid. this makes Ferris chloride, you need to add hydrogen peroxide to convert to ferric , go slow in an over large container is is an energetic reaction the ferris will be a green color, add peroxide until it turns brown and it is ferric, add distilled water until it etches nicely. For Sale: Custom & Semi Production Knives (Dealer), KnifeMaker's Market: Knives & More for Sale, Wanted: Knifemaker / Craftsman / Related Services, Busse / Swamprat / Scrapyard Knives For Sale, For Sale: Traditionals, Slipjoints, "Old Timey", International (Non-US) For Sale & Trade Forums. Before you start, check out the expiry date for your choice of acid to make sure it's too old. Technically, most of the time, we laser etch the knife if lasering on the blade, and engrave it on the wood handle (if the knife has a wood handle). Following. You can order it off of Amazon, believe it or not. Once you're all ready, you're ready to pick up! From his going on, they have respected their way of access, guided their response, expanded their product line and re-evaluated their unique iDascation process. 5. The difference between steel metals creates those different ways, especially when used again. Making stuff, hunting, rock climbing, philosophy, general adventure seeker. My first round of etching went very well, good contrasting colors and an even etch, but since then my etches have been splotchy with very little contrast. Mix water and acid in 3 or 4:1 ratio. I assume I need to set the oxides but can I still do that weeks later? Damascus's iron is highly respected by its patterns like waves. In terms of polish: I go to 220 grit on a random orbit sander (the regular electric kind you get from Lowes or Home Depot). Radio Shack sells it online as PCB Etchant. As soon as you're done, oil it. It fumes a lot (toxic) and the fumes will rust everything in your shop. These chemical compound work faster than acids. I mix the Ferric Chloride 50/50 with distilled water. But in Vegas Forge, they give that and more. The concentration from such sources is typically ~8.9M, or 32% (by mass). At 5-10 minute intervals, gently stir the copper etching solution to agitate the solution. Most people use it cold, which is very slow. Warm acid gives a much faster etch, but then you get less time to control what's happening. Or could one actually temper a knife in hot vinegar? Ferric Chloride is an iron "salt" of HCl that is nonetheless very acidic, though not as "strong" as HCl. Congratulations on your progress. Cleaning and Etching Concrete It easily dissolves the efflorescence on the concrete surface and removes other stains as well. JavaScript is disabled. What kind of acid do you use to etch Damascus steel? Etching with muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide Flash001USA 9.59K subscribers 87K views 9 years ago This video covers etching circuit boards with a mixture of muriatic acid and hydrogen. ", Damascus's sleeves, guns, and other metallic pieces become more popular as artists and regain their art. The iron will start reacting with the acid to produce hydrogen gas and ferrous chloride. Tungsten, vanadium, and carbon impurities in the metal formed carbon nanotubules and stretched cementite spheroids that gave the blades their pattern and mechanical properties. Mix baking soda with distilled water, using a lot of cooking soda so you can dip your piece to reduce acids and stop acne action. Muriatic also contains some other stuff, typically iron, which is already starting to become ferric. 4 years ago Ferric and Muriatic Acids work on Damascus Steels but will give 2 drastically different results. It is a straightforward process, which is used to enhance the appearance of the blade and bring the inherent pattern, lying in wait within the steel, to life. You can also neutralize muriatic acid with agricultural lime. Asiatic Muriatic does not require dilution. Put a tablespoon or so of baking powder in a saucepan of water and boil the piece for 10 minutes. Then you will find that you travertine will feel rough and maybe have some pits forming. How To Acid Etch Metal With Vinegar The Art Of Weapons. My problem here is that I've had some really inconsistent results with the vinegar. The When it comes to finish work, addition of the muriatic acid keeps Berthelot recommends sanding the copper from looking blurry, and to at least a clean 600 grit prior to keeps the material out of the solu-etching. Chaotic Neutral: Give me liberty, or receive death. Ive started working on damascus recently, and I know that ferric chloride is the way to go for etchant, but until I can get some I've been using vinegar just to get an idea of my patterns and such. It can also be used to remove soot from firebricks. Etching Damascus steel is usually to bring out the contrast between the layers; if that's not what you want, you might be better off with a mechanical etch that ignores the layers. Then sanded to 400 grit, I took the Muriatic Acid from the bottle that was 32% strong as the bottle says and placed 24 oz of water in a plastic tub, I then added the acid about 8 oz . All you have to do is add a scrap piece of iron or steel to the muriatic acid (or hydrochloric acid; same thing) and wait for it to dissolve. Neutralize the acid and Lightly sand the oxides off with scotch bright or 2000/3000 grit sand paper and re etch (don't touch it with your fingers). There you are, done! I've personally gone as high as 6-1 dilution with ferric, but that took literally hours to obtain the depth of etch I wanted. Remember to wear safety goggles and gloves at all times. Never put acid in the microwave! This is how I do it and it works for me. The liquid kind needs to be cut with four times as much water as there is ferric, the dry kind you just add five times more water than the instructions call far. That is why I recommended you dilute the HCl way down with water, Michael. Don't touch it with your hands. Does muriatic acid etch metal? No idea if I'm doing something wrong or if its just part of using vinegar ir if I'm just bad at putting metal into liquids. You could use clear coat lacquer instead if you like. Forseti Steel is a fairly new company that imports what appear to be high quality, handmade knives from Pakistan. This pattern is not the result of forge welding and folding as in pattern welded swords but rather because the chemical composition of the original billet. " Fill in the etches in good. Thoughts? I don't think I'd ever do this, but, dang, I found the whole instructable fascinating. Works great. Then etch it to make the pattern visible. Pour 1 part acid into 10 parts water to make an acid solution. Swishing the steel around in the etch to break up the bubbles is not a bad idea either. 7. Mix this stuff 4:1 with distilled water. If the reaction is proceeding too slowly for your liking you can heat up the mixture. my sword tanks tend to always be in flux, i end up adding peroxide distilled water, or fresh ferric to get then to etch nicely another question is my shop is in garage , it gets cold here will ferric acid freeze , dont want it bursting pvc pipe? Is it possible to etch Damascus with muriatic acid? Everyone has a slightly different dilution and technique. Tom, diluting muriatic doesn't make ferric chloride, no. There are two ways (at least) to do Raindrop that are much easier than doing a mosaic of jellyroll, one for use with a hydraulic press and one for use if you don't have a press. We are limited on the number of characters that can be used as the knives vary in size. Ferric Acid will result in a double grey pattern (dark and light grey pattern) on either a matte or polished finish. Pour the solution into your watering can you will reduce any splashing using the sprinkle nozzle and the solution will be spread evenly. Don't mess with muriatic acid! Since you have muriatic acid, its really easy to make ferric chloride. as per: Fluid, Electrolyte, and Acid-base Balance, View all products of Market Price & Insight. If you are using ferric acid, lift it with a compact juice until you are so close to 50/50 acid ratio for water supply. Never put acid on the microwave! Coffee Etching Damascus Steel | Knife Making How To/Tip. A place for all things chef knives. The generally accepted shelf life of ferric chloride solution is approximately six months. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." Other, safer products are available for etching concrete and should be used . Now we're using muriatic acid and loving it. Step 2. Place your board to be etched in your new solution and watch it go! interesting, what's the science behind that? Add the acid to the water to avoid harmful splashing of acid. Brush or spray the acid solution on the concrete, wait eight to 10 minutes, then neutralize the acid by spraying. [woocommerce-reset-password-nonce] => Your email address will not be published. Hardened and tempered steel etches with much more contrast. Then on the last etch , take it out, neutralize the acid without touching the blade, rinse with cold sater, dry the blade with compressed air (I use dust off) and oil . A place to talk about the use, maintenance, and acquisition of any Joshua C States. Be sure to always wear the appropriate protective gear when youre working with acid. It does not contain phosphoric, hydrochloric or muriatic acid, yet works better, safer and faster. Edit* I just realized folks already gave this answer. I haven't done many damasuses (damasci? KMT 106 - Etching Damasteel knife blades with muriatic acid JohnGrimsmo 76.1K subscribers Subscribe 126K views 7 years ago Damasteel is a powdered metallurgy stainless damascus steel. How do I heat-treat 440C/CPM-154 Damascus billet? Before you begin, check the expiration date on your acid of choice to be sure that its not too old. In the video linked above, YouTuber TheSmokinApe acid-etches an ESEE blade with Frenchs mustard. Remove your Damascus piece from acids and throw it to your baking board for 5 minutes to reduce acids. Sign up for a new account in our community. These bridges or buildings aroun, Make sure to wear regular gear when working with acids. hey guys, i used the lovely search function with pretty much no results. Do not change before creativity! Generally speaking, you want to be at about a 400 grit finish or better to get an even etch across the pattern. 2 Remove any burrs on the edges of the steel. I degrease with multiple wipes of acetone on new paper towels each time, but some guys prefer dish soap and water or alcohol. Let your piece remain in acids for 10 to 15 minutes. Begin the etching process. You can repeat 5 and 6 steps for a deep etch if you wish. Once your Damascus is sanded to the correct grit, thoroughly wash it with alcohol and pat dry with a clean rag. A standard strength for a careful etch on copper is 42 baume, above this and the ferric will etch more slowly as the solution is viscous. Mix two-parts of diluted hydrogen peroxide with one-part muriatic acid. Damasteel is a powdered metallurgy stainless damascus steel. By far, the best way too pickle blades is with white vinegar, just be sure and degrease them first. To clean and etch concrete, mix one part muriatic acid to 10 parts water. Put on the goggles and vinyl gloves before mixing the chemicals. The key is to have the knife sanded and finished properly, then etch, then neutralize, then only VERY lightly sand it just enough and stop. Be sure to always wear the appropriate protective gear when you're working with acid. It's used to etch printed circuit boards. In this video we show our new and improved process on how to etch the steel after heat treat to bring out that beautiful pattern. While high in carbon steel, the blade can easily rust if not cared for. No odor, no smell, not a skin irritant, non-corrosive. Start very dilute, like 1:10 or 1:20. Wash your piece with alcohol and pat it dry with a clean rag. Follow ( The keys are "pretty dilute" and "multiple, short immersions". If you etch before heat treating you'll just erase it in the cleanup sanding. Reputable Member Journeyman Bladesmith (5yr) 3:1, 4:1, or 5:1 distilled water to the FeCl are all commonly used dilutions. No, you'll be just fine etching after the heat treat process. Using an old dental rubber, dial Drums into acids to help remove any fat or fats that may not be available during cleaning, and remove removal materials as acids do their work. Either will etch any high carbon steel, eventually. RadioShack carries pcb enchant, aka ferric chloride. Once you find that perfect constant companion, that you keep in your pocket or bag, a great way to set it apart, to personalize it, is with laser engraving! I'm not going to cover how to make damascus steel, there's lots of information online and it's pretty simple. With ferric acid, keep grit between 400 and 600. Put the holes on both sides or you'll get a bar with raindrop on one side and random on the other. Vinegar is a pretty weak etch and it helps to use it hot. Using expired acids creates problems with your etching, and you do not want to get it after you have started your acute too old to work properly. Earn the Windex deep deep hole so that you can fully fill your Dutch item. Ecommerce Site by NeONBRAND. As many Damascus wars come from the market, consumers and new consumers in this matter want to know: Damascus is a solid iron? Damascus steel is a famed type of steel recognizable by the watery or wavy light and dark pattern of the metal. In your well-ventilated area, mix together one part muriatic acid to two parts hydrogen peroxide in a container thats big enough to fit the whole blade. In a large nonmetallic bowl or container, mix 1 part hydrochloric acid with 2 parts hydrogen peroxide. Over the years, Damascus1 has produced various products using one of the four hairdressers of the nazel hair. How do you make ferric chloride etching solution? The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing. How do I heat-treat my 1075 or 0-1 Carbon Damascus billet? Etching of the metal surface is done to make visible the crystalline structure of the metal and to produce optical contrast between the various constituents. It will corrode everything in sight and do a number on your lungs. If you are having trouble getting Ferric, try using Muriatic. Rinse the floor thoroughly, squeegee away puddles, allow floor to dry. It's often used in swimming pools to lower the pH of the water. Bubbling air through it hastens the re-oxidation. Could have probably pypassed this step: dumped 1/2 gallon of phosphoric in the tank and sloshed it around with the cap shut and stoppers in. If you need to warm your acids to be used, the best way to place your acids container is in a large amount of warm water. There are five distinctive patterns from which to choose. Muriatic Acid vs. Hydrochloric Acid Ferric Chloride - 1 Quart - 1000 ML - Copper Etchant Solution - Stainless Steel Etching Cream 4.6 (203) $2499 $22.49 with Subscribe & Save discount FREE delivery Tue, Feb 28 on $25 of items shipped by Amazon Small Business MG Chemicals - 415-4L Ferric Chloride Copper Etchant Solution, 4L Liquid Bottle 4.7 (269) $4835 - $6862 FREE delivery Every time Hi all, I just completed a dagger, but after I was done RE: New Bladesmith Skill Development And Evaluation. You will also need to wash a baking bar. I have cleaned with soap and water, acetone, etc. Made To Order * VG-10 San Mai Steel Knife Blank Damascus Layered Raw Finish Knife Making / LPB#2 ad vertisement by 11Spartans. Ken Fong Acid is generally mixed at a ratio of 3 parts water to 1 part acid for sufficient strength to etch properly. The impurities give muriatic acid a yellowish . Also the finish can basically be removed with a dry cloth. Of course, it is possible for any smith to have an improper batch, but any frequency of Damascu, Damascus1 creates the best products in America made of Damascus steel. Toss the PCB into the solution and itll take off. If you add additional HCl, the etching solution eventually (after many PCB's) becomes mostly cupric chloride, which is also an excellent etchant. The press method is the reverse. . Our first Etching Damasteel video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inzrn7kL-2UHere is more information about Damasteel and where to order it from. However by simply etching the look will not be correct for gun barrels, and will be a relatively light contrast. What products are often used? Adding HCl acid can restore the cutting ability of the FeCl3. 3:1, 4:1, or 5:1 distilled water to the FeCl are all commonly used dilutions. The articles on this site are for informational purposes only. Etching a stainless damascus steel knife (or any damascus) is not as complicated as many people tend to believe. Removing this step is notified, even though your tailor seems good because the acid is in the middle of the second and eliminates your design. I've since settle on at 4-1 dilution, and overall etching a blade takes 45-60 mins. So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. Putting acid on your travertine will cause it to initially bubble and fizz (CO2 escaping in the reaction). were can you get ferric cloride i've seen diluted in some placesbut havent found full strength, if i see it online they say they cannot ship it. My question at the moment is, will hot vinegar ruin the temper on a knife? this works well as a etchant but i have found ferric made this way is not as stable as store bought. . Possible acids include muriatic (hydrochloric) acid (HCL), nitric acid (HNO3), or . Be extra careful at this stage not to touch it! You can also make it, by adding Fe to HCl. We therefore recommend you check the strength of you solution and if necessary gradually dilute with water until you reach a strength of 42 baume. This is commonly sold in home improvement stores and pool supply stores in gallon jugs. Wet down the surface to be cleaned, using a sponge or a sprayer and allow the acid . It is in a greatly reduced concentration compared to the 30% hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid). Wanted to compare it with the home-recipe batch I made. -----------------------------------------------"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. Damascus etching is completed with either ferric chloride or muriatic acid. The strength of the acid generally determines how quickly the steel will be etched, the stronger the acid, the faster the process. It's known as muriatic acid and is sold in bulk at pool-supply and home-improvement stores. For this reason, true Damascus steel is called wootz Damascus steel to distinguish it from imitations. Michael, my advise would be to dilute it down subtantially with distilled water. You can also use Windex with this step, but do not try to break your piece. In masonry work, etching is a way to chemically clean and prepare masonry for repair or painting. Even polishing hard will remove the pattern. Using a broom, scrub the concrete with the acid solution. This small board took only 2 minutes. I love watching Ilya's work. Thanks for the tips. Which type of steel you etch will determine the best acid or chemical to use to etch it with. Share it with us! Etching of Damascus is done after manufacturing or grinding of the blank to bring out the contrasting steel patterns. The worst thing about Muriatic acid is storing two gallons of it without eating up every piece of steel in the shop. Once you have gathered all the necessary supplies and safety gear, you will be ready to begin etching your garage floor. Rinsed the inside of the tank thoroughly with water, then sloshed some baking soda and water inside the tank to neutralize any remaining acid, drained and rinsed again. Question You can also use it to clean soot from fireplace bricks. Dissolve enough iron in ityes. Hi, Sorry for the slow reply. Put on your protective gear. The nice folks at Forseti have their own quality assurance system in place, and they design many of the more interesting knives in their catalog. How do I heat-treat my 1075 or 0-1 Carbon Damascus billet? Do not change before creativity! Then I remembered I'd been thinking of switching to re-usable etchant, created on the bench using muriatic acid (the store name for hydrochloric acid, HCl, used for cleaning swimming pools). Acid etching a concrete floor is typically a 6-step process: Prepare, clean, and degrease concrete. Etching of Damascus is done after manufacturing or grinding of the blank to bring out the contrasting steel patterns. Though there was a demand for Damascus steel, in the 19th century it stopped being made. The higher the dilution of the ferric, the slower it will etch, and the better/clean the etch will come out within reason. Make sure your steel is clean. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. STEP 1: STARTING Bring your Damascus at the end of grit 400 to 600. 2 years ago How do I heat-treat my stainless Damascus after purchase? The "active ingredient" in ferric chloride solution is hydrochloric acid. Sure, you can etch steel with hydrochloric acid; e.g. The "active ingredient" in ferric chloride solution is hydrochloric acid. Pretty much unreadable due to very poor English. FORGE, Jan 1, 2014 #4 Icho- Staff Member Likes Received: 154 Trophy Points: 63 Thanks Forge. Dampen the surface to be etched with clean water. It's expensive, but amazing. It is commonly used to etch steel and stainless steel parts, but it is also capable of etching copper. Play both the process and the sandpaper to see what you like. Etching Damascus - Mike Carter demonstrates how to acid etch Damascus knife blades to reveal the pattern in the steel; For etching, you'll find a confusing array of products, including standard muriatic acid as well as products such as Klean-Strip Green Muriatic Acid ($7.84 per gallon at Home Depot) and. Many hand-forged Damascus blades are made out of high carbon steel with small amounts of chromium in the alloy. [woocommerce-edit-address-nonce] => Once the half hour is up, check the etching to make sure you're happy with the result. bladesmithsforum.com Dilute by adding 1 part of Muriatic acid to 10 parts of water or 1 cup of acid per liter. Step 1: Sanding Bring your Damascus to a 400 to 600 grit finish. Thank you Kevin. Hydrochloric acid is a purer and more toxic form of muriatic acid. Chemicals that form acid in water, such as ferric (iron) chloride or copper sulfate can also be used as etching chemicals. These products combine 50% of 50% of controversial rows in metal Damascus. Step 1: The Requirements of Steel Etching: Ferric chloride Plastic container Distilled water Etch resist/stencil Acetone Cotton swabs and/or Q-tips Paperclip and/or dental floss Rubber gloves High grit dry/wet steel wool or sandpaper Step 2: Preparation of Etching Components The most important step in this whole process is preparation. Our mission is preserving and promoting the ancient craft of forged knives through education, testing and certification. *Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc, or its affiliates. (Add the acid to the water, not water to acid, for safety reasons.) I've done several tests, using the same pieces of steel, same amount if vinegar at the same temp, etc, and nothing is working as well as the first batch. Dilution should best be done with distilled water to keep it uncontaminated with water minerals. It is a corrosive salt. What follows is a step-by-step tutorial on how to acid etch concrete with muriatic acid. Erik takes the lead with this video because it's his specialty, he shows how to clean the blades, prepare them for etching, etch them, neutralize them, polish after etching, and a lot of other little tricks in between. How do I heat-treat 440C/CPM-154 Damascus billet? Certain non-acids that form acid in water, such as ferric chloride (FeCl3) or copper sulfate (CuSO4), can also be used as etching chemicals. Can you use muriatic acid to etch a knife? Vegas Forge. Radio Shack sells it online as PCB Etchant. The stronger the acid, the more damage will be done. You can get an even etch if it's random. I've been there before.. You can do this by first mixing a small solution in your watering can starting at a 5:1 ratio. Read entire label prior to use or storage. Step 4: Mix the Etch Acid Put on your rubber gloves. Great sense of humor and good information. It is an ultra high carbon steel that achieved liquid state which should, theoretically, allow you to get a homogeneous steel product with equal carbon distribution and no slag inclusions at all. By The only step I did not do was the boil in baking soda. It will rust almost immediately if you don't. Lol. The damascus is 5160/1018/15n20 nickle I heat treated in the canola got it cherry hot and dipped it tip down . So, your foliate results arent a surprise. What Is ChatGPT? 1. The acid etching will need to be done outside or in a well-ventilated area, and you should wear rubber gloves and goggles from here on out. NOT ALL DAMASCUS ARE MADE LIVING Damascus is made of many metallic combinations to form one piece. I just etched my first Damascus blade. Damascus Steel Knives | Hunting in Damascus. No need to go full strength to get results. After heat treating, bring your Damascus to a 400 to 600 grit finish. has no defect, one of the components inside the steel is not affected by etching, which makes it unacceptable Damascus to be a unique discovery when it's over.